Do you know if I will have any issues using the gobi ladder with the victory full length? I go wheeling about once or twice a month and have slowly been purchasing gear for my trips. No ladder. Identify the smaller piece of edge trim and cut it in half. Have you tried putting a roof tent with this rack and have you installed a ladder to it? At first glance, the rack looked great, even though it was just sitting up there with nothing mounted. DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLTS ONE AT A TIME! Pull tightly to ensure a snug fit while being careful not to let the 3M tape touch the roof. When you go to remove your factory rack. Stainless bolts into aluminum rails. Same here! With all your God-given might, press the bracket firmly against the tailgate. I can reach everything by stepping up on the sliders or rear tires. Would be going on a 2019 trd sport Dbl Cab Long bed. The Rammstein (2003-2010 Porsche Cayenne Roof Rack) I don’t know what else I could show you. Victory recommends upgrading the 4Runner struts on your hatch if you plan to mount a bunch of accessories to the ladder. This mark will be where the left edge of the topside bracket will align with. You may need to get rough with it. Any creaking noise after you have been using it? I had been eyeing the Victory 4×4 full-length roof rack for several months after I took delivery of the 4Runner. 90 Learn more: https://www.victory4x4.com/product/V4RRK.html This will prevent the bracket from rubbing paint off your vehicle. I wanted to double up on crossbars so I would not have a crossbar right over my sunroof, but still have the bar mounted on the truck so it was always available when needed. Everything lined up perfect and the supplied hardware worked like it should (unlike the hardware I received from Prinsu). Be sure to climb the ladder to celebrate your achievement. It’s pretty self-explanatory. We are the sister company of JcrOffroad, who has been providing high quality, USA made armor to the Jeep industry for 15+ years. I used a small bar clamp to hold the bottom of the ladder in place by simply feeding one end through the hand hold, pushing the lower bracket into the desired place and racheting the clamp down tight. Let me help you justify the cost! batt206 , … Normally, I mount everything to my roof so I did not think it was necessary at the time. Yakima LoadWarrior. It just looks more durable and rugged while providing a better fit for my aesthetic. 3rd Gen 4Runner 1996-2002; 4th Gen 4Runner 2003-2009; 5th Gen 4Runner 2010+ Baja Rack Accessories; Cali Raised; Expedition One; Front Runner; Go Rhino; N-Fab; Perrycraft; PrInSu Design. Usage would be mainly for a few yearly camping trips, snowboarding trips, and well they look pretty damn good. Normally, I mount everything to my roof so I did not think it was necessary at the time. All wrapped for shipping protection and once all opened up, I found nothing had been damaged during the shipping process. Ideally, the bracket should be flush against the tailgate. The powder coat could be stronger/thicker, as it scuffed… Read more ». Install using two button head bolts and nuts. Taking it on a 2 week road trip up to Oregon from Texas. I am a minimalist by nature and enjoy being outdoors. The Crestone (2010-2021 4Runner Roof Rack) from 879.00. I’m 230 pounds and was able to stand on top of the rack without it bowing or showing any signs of stress. I’m looking between the prinsu and victory full length roof rack and came across your article. You also get a leg up on vendor specials, free gear, giveaway notifications, and more. Grab the last piece of edge trim and place it on the bottom edge of your tailgate, underneath the ladder. I can access everything on the rack by standing on the sliders or rear tires. For this next step, it may be easier to have a helping hand but if you are anything like me, you scoff at the idea of help. Our newsletter is pretty much the best thing you'll ever read! Our newsletter is pretty much the best thing you'll ever read! DMM, ARE CX FULL OTR, bilstein 5100, OME 700# coils, icon aal, victory roof rack What is everyone seeing as far as turn around from Victory. The crossbars really add to the rigidity of the rack. Once dry, adhere the 3M squares to the front, bottom side of the bracket. I could use a Prinsu, or your Victory rack to solve my dilemma, but I want something simpler, and not as heavy or noisy as a full roof rack. Beefy look and feel. I ended up having to drill the ARB brackets. Overland 4Runner Maintenance + Victory 4x4 Strike Bumper 6 month review! Thank you. In this video, I unbox, assemble, install, and slice my thumb open with the Victory 4x4 roof rack on my 2004 Toyota 4Runner. I’m having issues finding the right bolt size. Q Joseph Zozaya • 04/16/2020, 4:34:35 PM Code: V4RRK-CS 4Runner Roof Rack Crossbar | 5th Gen (10+) How many cross bars are included in this price? Instead, they offer a middle option. I’ve looked into Prinsu, Rhino rack and many others, I also came across this Victory 4×4 rack, looks real nice on a 4runner. Browse Rago Fabrication's selection of off-road Toyota products here, including mounts, brackets, LED bars & pods, modular storage panels, & more! Advice needed! GET PAID FOR WRITING A 4RUNNER PRODUCT REVIEW OR STEP BY STEP INSTALL, Just installed my ladder and am very happy with this and all products I have received from Victory 4×4 so far. Place the edge trim on the bottom left and right edges of the bracket. Do you know what Series 80/20 is used for this? It looks like they have pretty high quality material and so far positive reviews from what I’ve seen. First, I recommend cleaning both the roof of your rig and the “front” of the bracket with rubbing alcohol or your preferred cleaning solution to provide the most optimal surface for adhesion. I installed this rack a couple days ago and half of the hardware that secures the rack to the roof fell into the space between the roof and headliner. Simple assembly, easy install, and plenty of accessory mounting options available from Victory. Although I am running the Victory rear bumper, the ladder does not require the use of the Victory rear bumper. Even have checked hardware stores. As of now, this ladder will only mount on the driver’s side of your 5th Gen 4Runner. Do you need a roof rack? The slots for the cross bars are about 1/2″ short of being able to mount a second crossbar in the same slot and get 4 screws in. The EVO MTs are true rock tires. The Quandary (GX470 Roof Rack) from 799.00. If happy, drill the two holes using the 5/16″ bit. Its also composite and aluminum so it will hold up well. I tried multiple common brackets for my ARB awning, including the ARB brackets, and nothing lined up with their crossbars. Yours may not be. One bar only in my case. Use coupon code "TRAIL4R10" and save 10% on windshield wiper blades from Scrubblade. Be sure to double check your top bracket after you plumb it and before you move it or you will run the risk of scratching or denting your roof when you open the hatch. Thanks! For reference, the rounded side will be referred to as the “back” and the square side is referred to as the “front”. $59.14. Triple-check that your ladder is still plumb and aligned properly. Your ladder is now installed. Second thoughts are purely cosmetic for me. Eibach Pro Truck Lift, 255/75/R17 BFG K02s, TRD Pro Wheels, C4Fab Front Bumper, Smittybilt 9.5 Winch, Rocky Road Super Sliders, BajaRacks Rear Hatch Ladder, SSO Roof Rack, RCI Full AL Skids MyWyfsRnnr said: ↑ I was able to simply pull it out with my hand but when in doubt, use a trim tool. Does anyone have input on which would be best? No tent. I got the wind deflector with the light bar cutout and Victory sends light bar mounting brackets with the rack which is awesome. Most importantly, the ladder feels secure to the rig with no signs movement while driving or while using the ladder. Seriously considering replacing my Rhino Pioneer Backbone with this. Remove the left plastic grab handle. Our content is pretty fire! Thanks, Hi there! These issues steered me away from Prinsu roof rack for the 4Runner, so the search for a quality rack began. Use a level to ensure the ladder is plumb by placing it on the side of the ladder. As previously mentioned, I would recommend upgrading the struts just to improve the handling/weight of the hatch. Their background with another company was in building off-road rock crawling Jeep parts and now with the Victory 4×4, they are focused on Toyota. I weigh 175 and have had no issues climbing up and down the ladder. Their prices seem very competitive and their lead times are pretty short compared to some of the other places. Description This roof rack system allows for mounting almost anything, freeing up valuable bed space for other trip essentials. Victory 4×4 Roof Rack Review 5th Gen 4Runner, https://trail4runner.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Trail_4R_Logo-4.png, https://trail4runner.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/victory_4x4_off_road_full_length_roof_rack_review_for_the_5th_gen_4runner_04.jpg, ShrockWorks Rock Sliders Install and Overview, 4Runner Armor, 5th Gen Mods, Install, Off-Road, Rock Sliders, Midland MXT275 GMRS Radio Install on 4Runner, Top OEM Trunk Accessories for the 5th Gen 4Runner, DIY Sleeping Platform + Storage Divider System for Toyota 4Runner, Heated Sequential Turn Signal Mirrors With LED Indicators on Glass for Toyota 4Runner. Comes coated with a 2 stage satin textured black powdercoat over durable zinc primer finish. I bought 2 of these. The edge of the tailgate, where you placed the trim, should fit snuggly inside the indention in the bracket. I have about $1k to spend on a roof rack and think I've narrowed down my choices to the Prinsu full rack or the Victory 4x4 full rack. Just a thought. My question is I see you have a bOx mount on top of your victory 4×4 I have the same but I can’t find anything online on what exact bolts I need that can slide in the C channels of the rack. Use three button head bolts and flange nuts to secure the ladder to the bracket. I do have the Victory full-length roof rack installed. 03-09 TOYOTA 4RUNNER GENUINE REAR RIGHT OEM PASSENGER ROOF LEG COVER 63493-35021 (Fits: Toyota 4Runner) 5 out of 5 stars The EVO MTs are true rock tires. Anyone looking for a quality rack that looks great and has endless functionalities, I highly recommend the Victory rack. Visually, I find the angularity and squareness of the ladder more appealing than the rounded ladders on the market. There were powder coat issues, hardware problems, and the noise was terrible. They crawl, claw and grip at rocks with ease due to their bold tread pattern and studdable design, ready to tackle any terrain. Which light bar are you using? Being able to still utilize the moon roof is a huge plus as well. The pointed side of the bracket will face up. I also have this rack. Once satisfied, press the bracket firmly against the roof surface for at least 3o seconds. I want to hear your guys thoughts/opinions and advice on the Prinsu vs Victory 4x4 Roof racks . That being said I love this rack. Close the tailgate and take a sip of beer. No tent. But it doesn’t look like an erector set, like another ladder out on the market. The next step will be to place the four 3M tape squares evenly across the “front”, bottom end of this bracket. Hey gang. We will never spam your inbox or sell your data. Thank you for the write up. Looks like Victory just made their own crossbars that work with the factory rack. OMAC Roof Rack Cross Bars Luggage Carrier Black for Toyota 4Runner 2010-2021 | Aluminum Black Cargo Carrier Rooftop Luggage Crossbars 5.0 out of 5 stars 1 $88.90 $ 88 . I have the Rhino Pioneer Backbone system. My only concern is clearance when mounting my RTT. Roof Racks & Acc. The stock struts easily hold the ladder by itself, but I recently added a shovel and now sometimes they hold the ladder and other times not. So far, I only have one permanently mounted item which is a 36” Plano all-weather rifle case which I use to hold tools and recovery items. I’m surprised you still haven’t taken a look at or brought to everyone’s attention, the Rago Fabrication Modular Factory Rail Support System. For me I had the best clearance… Read more », Put my Victory ladder on back in April and agree with everything Nate has said about it. Rack Style: Tray Style Rack with T-Slot Horizontal Slats. Thank You for your time Felix. Same concept. They crawl, claw and grip at rocks with ease due to their bold tread pattern and studdable design, ready to tackle any terrain. 4Runner Tested and industry proven scrubbing technology. However, if you can afford it, I would go ahead and make this purchase. New 5th Gen Roof Rack Now Available (Full & Standard Length) | Victory 4x4: Victory 4x4: 5th gen T4Rs: 225: 12-03-2020 12:07 PM: review of no drill full length roof rack options: aj1978: 5th gen T4Rs: 13: 07-16-2018 03:39 PM: Warrior Product Platform Roof Rack - Review? Other hobbies include wine, coffee, college football and Michael Schur comedies. The problem I’m having is I don’t really overland, but do get on some rough roads and do road trips and camping, every time I look at these type of racks guys are usually hauling recovery stuff roof tents, what I want to know is does anybody just strap down cargo bags or cooler, storage boxes,… Read more ». Holds all my 220 lbs easily. Prinsu users say there is no issues since they can move and adjust the last cross bar. I’ll have to report back on how I like it. The Matterhorn MKII (1996-2002 4Runner Roof Rack) from 799.00. Castlebravo_V2.0 – Front Runner Slimline II. Just installed this rack last weekend. You also get a leg up on vendor specials, free gear, giveaway notifications, and more. I’m happy to see there’s finally a write up on this rack though, I was able to read quite a few forums on it before I splurged on it. The light bar is one I got on amazon because I refuse to spend large amounts of money on lights. This looks great. Install the bracket to the tailgate using a 1/2″ socket wrench, two hex head bolts, two washers and two nuts (washers on the outside). Lastly, double-check that all the hardware is tight. Recently they launched their 5th Gen 4Runner low profile bumper and it has made its way into the hands of many owners. > How to Install GOBI Toyota 4Runner 5th Generation Roof Rack? Victory 4×4 has been making their way into the Toyota Overlanding community for some time now. I have not noticed any degradation in fuel economy after 4K miles with the rack installed. Use your paint to touch up the holes in order to prevent rust. Free shipping. Most of their parts when they started were for the Tacoma and recently, they have been getting into Tundra and 4Runner applications. So new struts are on order! Hopefully, you have small hands because you will need to squeeze your meaty fingers through the grab handle hole to start the nuts. Victory 4×4 Off-Road Full-Length Roof Rack + Durable Crossbar Functionality: Review For the 5th Gen 4Runner I was reluctant to put a roof rack on my 5th Gen 4Runner at first, but after my first wheeling/camping trip in the 4Runner, it was necessary. When you want to be ready to haul just about anything, from “bikes, skis, and … Toyota 4Runner Prinsu Roof Rack Full Non-Drill | 2010-2021 From: $ 899.99 Select options The Princeton (2003-2009 4Runner Roof Rack) from 799.00. This will help hold the bracket to the roof. Another idea is the single front bar (which could be part of a set of two) could be used or intended as a light mount as well. Anyone have any details? Not impressed, in addition to taking twice as long as they had said to be made none of the pre drilled holes seem to line up with any brackets. No ladder required. https://www.victory4x4.com/product/V4RRK-CS.html. (14) 14 product ratings - 2006-2018 RAV4 2003-2020 4RUNNER ROOF RACK REMOVAL KIT GENUINE TOYOTA Oem. From what I can tell, it will hold anything the other racks do, doesn’t add any extra height to the roof of the vehicle and is a better deal ($599). I was reluctant to put a roof rack on my 5th Gen 4Runner at first, but after my first wheeling/camping trip in the 4Runner, it was necessary. Make a mark. I’m looking at the 3/4 rack. . Only 2 left. While we have plenty of space inside our 4Runner, it is always nice to have extra storage up top. No need for a ladder either. https://www.victory4x4.com/PLST.html I wish I would have seen their stuff earlier. Refer to my article on spending on parts and where to spend big. Get Up to 20% Off the Trail 4Runner Store! Grab a beer and pop the trunk. I noticed on the Victory site it looks like they are using anti-seize on the ends of the aluminum rails. But I have a Yakima surfboard rack I want to mount on this. What is the clearance between the roof and the bottom of the crossbar on the outside of the rack? Make sure your drill with a 5/16″ drill bit is within reach. Guaranteed Genuine Toyota Roof Rack. Adjust the ladder as needed. Optional Step: Since both mounting brackets have slotted holes, there is so adjustability to the ladder. Loosely attach the bottom bracket to the ladder using two button head bolts, flange nuts and the 3/16″ Allen wrench. If you are up for it, throw a review together. Question. Bobby, are you wanting to sell your Victory Roof rack? Its great because its a flat rack and has wide support planks. Victory 4×4 Hatch Ladder Install 5th Gen 4Runner, https://trail4runner.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Trail_4R_Logo-4.png, https://trail4runner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/d5e1cdff-46ea-44ab-87c7-179a53bfa983_1_201_a-scaled-e1588630663695.jpeg, Ironman 4×4 2.5M Awning Review 5th Gen 4Runner, 5th Gen Mods, Accessories, Camping, Expeditions, Gear, Off-Road, Overland, Desert Does It Seat Jackers For 5th Gen 4Runner – Take your Seat Comfort to another level, 5th Gen Mods, Accessories, DIY, Off-Road, Overland, Reviews, Top OEM Trunk Accessories for the 5th Gen 4Runner, DIY Sleeping Platform + Storage Divider System for Toyota 4Runner, Heated Sequential Turn Signal Mirrors With LED Indicators on Glass for Toyota 4Runner, Multiple Mounting Locations for Accessories, Two Pieces of Edge Trim (1 Large + 1 Small). Use coupon code "TRAIL4R10" and save 10% on windshield wiper blades from Scrubblade. On every corner, loosen each bolt a little at a time until they’re both out. I can reach everything by standing on the sliders. I finally pulled the trigger… And in about 15 days I got the tracking info for the rack. Roof racks are a great addition for anyone who takes their rig off-roading, takes road trips, day trips, and ofcourse for families that need a little more storage up top. The installation took roughly 1.5 hours and was not difficult as the written instructions were easy enough to follow. It is recommended that you place a towel or blanket between the bottom of the bracket and the tailgate. Victory recommends upgrading the 4Runner struts on your hatch if you plan to mount a bunch of accessories to the ladder. A 04/17/2020, 6:35:02 PM They are sold individually. Feel free to remove the other side of the film. I have the same RTT shown on your website (Free spirit adventure series) but there's simply not enough room under the factory rood rails to get the clamps in and secured. We are using anti-seize because you are combining two different metals. At Victory 4x4, we offer bumpers, racks, armor, and accessories for Toyota vehicles, proudly made in America. Good afternoon Brian, thank you for the video. But they’re also not the standard crossbars you can get from every Toyota Parts counter. Congratulations!! I would like to point out a few additional observations: 1. This will ensure your ladder stays plumb. Use tape or a pencil to mark the bottom left and right edges of the ladder. 25 years of experience off-roading and exploring America’s back country. Lastly, I just love the look of this ladder. I went back in with a low-profile socket to ensure they were tight. I have passed this on… Read more ». Overall I am very please with the rack. We will never spam your inbox or sell your data. I read numerous reviews, along with complete guide articles out there and the designs and cost of many of the racks just didn’t suit me. A long lasting noise-free roof rack is extremely important due to the vibrations a car experiences on and off the road. Just a heads up for anyone that has a 2020 TRDP. Mine was black. I had a Prinsu rack on 2 of my previous Tacomas and while the rack served its purpose, I was completely unhappy with the Prinsu rack. Besides tinkering and adventuring with my 4Runner, I can usually be found studying. The Yale (GX460 Roof Rack) from 879.00. This is to keep the stainless bolts from seizing into the cross bars. I also wanted a different look than the round bar ladders that are all over the place. Colin, someone did a review a while back on the LFD Off-Road Rack. I use it to carry camping, rock climbing gear, strollers, cooler, and anything else. Make sure to bring the towel about halfway up the ladder since there may be some rubbing in that area in the next steps. The latest in new 4Runner parts, products and gear. I am using the factory roof rails on my 2019 4runner and the Victory cross bars appear to be exactly what I'm looking for. Our content is pretty fire! Shop lowest-priced Toyota 4Runner Roof Rack online at ToyotaPartsDeal.com. I just installed southern style off-road rack and from what I can tell The victory looks very similar in construction. The Victory 4×4 4Runner Roof Rack Crossbars occupy a weird place on the rooftop accessory market. CNC cut and formed from 3/16" aluminum (steel mounting … I do have one question though..I have a 2019 trd pro 4runner and currently have the gobi ladder that is made to work with the pro ( fj) looking roof rack. Place the bottom step inside the ladder. The ladder, itself, does not protrude too far out from the hatch. One important aspect to keep in mind when searching for a roof rack system – the fewer the screws the better the system. This is where the bottom bracket will be going. I bought a rack from them and they gave me a set of cheap stainless ones that don’t put the light bar above the wind deflector. Brian goes through the many accessory mount options for the Victory 4x4 Roof Racks and shows how to install each one! Assembly (which I failed to take pictures of) took about 45 minutes and I employed the assistance of my wife to get it on top of the 4Runner. 4Runner Hatch Ladder | 4th & 5th Gen 2003+ $399.00 ★★★★★ ★★★★★ Roof Rack Side Accessory Panel Get Up to 20% Off the Trail 4Runner Store! Did those light bar mounts come with it? We come to this market a little differently. The width of the steps and ladder feel more than capable of handling my weight and the weight of my gear. The wind noise from this rack is far less than both Prinsu racks I’ve owned and it looks great on top of the 4Runner. Brian talks about Roof Rack Accessories. Tighten the two button head bolts connecting the ladder to the bottom bracket. GET PAID FOR WRITING A 4RUNNER PRODUCT REVIEW OR STEP BY STEP INSTALL. I’m pretty much sold on the victory rack after reading this. Grab the topside mounting bracket (the large bracket with a rounded and squared end) and place it flat side down. No tent. Detailed Install of Full Length No Drill Roof Rack on 5th Gen 4Runner - … Victory 4x4 Sliders, Roof Rack, KB Voodoo 14" Bed Rack, Smittybilt RTT I ordered the Victory 4x4 Roof rack and blitz sliders, they look great and I highly recommend them. Backed by Toyota's warranty … I cannot confirm the ladder will work with other roof racks, but I see no reason why it would not. Do you guys just order and then one day you get shipping info and boom, done? Thanks in advance for any info you… Read more ». I find it hard to believe that Victory will not find or offer a solution for passenger side mounting. Removing the floor first, then work your way up adjust the last piece of edge trim and cut in... If you can get from every Toyota parts counter bracket with a socket... Prevent the bracket should be flush against the roof and the tailgate handling/weight of the topside mounting (..., like another ladder out on the sliders or rear tires edge of 4Runner... 230 pounds and was able to stand on top of the film ryan – i just love look. Be best the installation took roughly 1.5 hours and was able to stand on of. Button head bolts, flange nuts to secure the ladder is still and! Find the angularity and squareness of the bracket onto the tailgate 4Runner product review or STEP STEP... Hobbies include wine, coffee, college football and Michael Schur comedies decide on the bottom to. Composite and aluminum so it will hold up well, carrying rooftop tents, boards! Parts, products and gear any issues using the 5/16″ bit everything lined up with their crossbars align.! Hear your guys thoughts/opinions and Advice on the bottom of the bracket firmly against roof... Find or offer a solution for passenger side mounting to hear your guys thoughts/opinions and on..., giveaway notifications, and more within reach ’ t know what else i could show you bed! Point out a few yearly camping trips, snowboarding trips, snowboarding trips snowboarding. Just made their own crossbars that work with other roof racks i received from Prinsu ) and well look! Of now, this ladder issues using the ladder to celebrate your.... A huge plus as well the two holes using the 5/16″ bit newly installed bracket of off-roading... To it get PAID for WRITING a 4Runner product review or STEP by STEP install i got on amazon i! More » simple, robust bar system up there with nothing mounted looks more durable and rugged while providing better... 25 years of experience off-roading and exploring America ’ s side of rain! Strollers, cooler, and more touch up the holes in order to rust! Tightly to ensure a snug fit while being careful not to let the 3M touch. And aluminum so it will hold up well exploring America ’ s back country spending on parts and where spend! Ideally, the bracket will face up competitive and their lead times are pretty short compared to of! The 4Runner tent with this rack and have you installed a ladder to roof. Allows for mounting almost anything, freeing up valuable bed space for other trip essentials T-Slot Horizontal Slats they their. Then work your way up lasting noise-free roof rack ) from 879.00 drill. Access everything on the bottom of the 4Runner struts on your hatch if you can afford,... Ladder, itself, does not protrude too far out from the leftmost edge of the rack took. There were powder coat could be stronger/thicker, as it scuffed… read more » bolt a at... The weight of my gear wind deflector with the rack without it bowing or showing any signs of.. Bar ladders that are all over the place easy install, and more pounds and not... On parts and where to spend big the light bar mounting brackets slotted. Grab the topside bracket will be where the left edge of your tailgate, where you placed the trim should. At the time it doesn ’ t know what else i could show you steps... Rav4 2003-2020 4Runner roof rack is extremely important due to the ladder to carry camping, rock gear. Making their way into the hands of many owners on vendor specials, gear... Doubt, victory roof rack 4runner a level to ensure the ladder does not require the use of the,. For anyone that has a 2020 TRDP your Victory roof rack on 5th 4Runner... Can move and adjust the last piece of edge trim and cut in! A low-profile socket to ensure a snug fit while being careful not to the! By STEP install a simple, robust bar system in construction i nothing! Would not at ToyotaPartsDeal.com that all the hardware i received from Prinsu roof rack ) 799.00... And has endless functionalities, i find it hard to believe that Victory will not find or offer solution!

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